On this episode of The Founder's Sandbox, Brenda McCabe sits down with Jen Apy, Area Managing Partner and Chief Marketing Officer at Chief Outsiders, to explore how scaling companies can unlock growth through fractional marketing leadership.

Jen shares insights from her 30+ years of marketing experience—spanning Mattel, Adobe, Intuit, and now Chief Outsiders—and introduces listeners to the Growth Gears framework: a strategic methodology designed to help small and mid-sized companies grow efficiently and sustainably.

Jen and Brenda also dive into key trends such as the rise of “flash teams,” how AI is transforming the marketing playbook, and the importance of being a learning organization in a fast-moving world.

You can find out more at https://www.chiefoutsiders.com 

 

 

 

transcript: 

00:04

So  welcome back to the Founder's Sandbox. I am Brenda McCabe, the host of this monthly podcast where I am joined by business owners, founders, and professional service providers that are scaling businesses.

00:34

with great corporate governance. This podcast is now in its fourth season and very excited to have Jen Apy as my guest today. For those that are subscribed to the Founder Sandbox, you always know that we have a story that's going to be told about the origins of the company and the founder  and the professional's experience as the introduction here. And we will always come back to the...

01:02

the sandbox where we're talking about resilience, purpose-driven and scalable growth. And when Jen, who I've known now for several years, we work in the same ecosystem, spoke to me about the growth gears, that is kind of the overarching framework  of chief outsiders. I was fascinated and wanted to offer the platform of the podcast to get the message out to  business owners that are

01:30

scaling and have not yet thought about using fractional marketing services. So welcome, Jen, to this fourth season. um Absolutely delighted to have you here. Oh, I'm delighted to be here. Excellent.  So we did choose a title. We're gonna you're gonna hear the word growth gears throughout this podcast. So the title for the podcast today is growth gears for scaling. And

01:56

Jen and I kind of share a similar background in the sense that we've been out there over three decades.  I um had my own consulting business. I worked in the McKinsey & Company and reinvented myself uh around really bringing the expertise that I had at multinationals into the ecosystem  of growth stage companies. Jen, tell me you are multifaceted marketing professional over three decades.

02:26

of experience contributing to marketing excellence. Tell us a bit about your origin and your currently, I think since five years ago, the area managing partner and chief marketing officer of Chief Outsiders. So share a bit how your role has evolved and what's it like to be with this company that was once a startup itself. Well, thank you so much for having me, Brenda. It's been a wild ride.

02:56

I feel like I was so lucky  early in my career to work with fabulous marketers at Mattel and Intuit and Adobe.  And now to have  the opportunity to apply those skills to help small to mid-sized companies grow. It's really been a fantastic experience. I feel like this is my purpose. Oh, beautiful. To share these enterprise little marketing skills with smaller companies that

03:25

are hungry for growth.  you when I, when I meet founders or I meet CEOs, I'm always really curious about, know, what's working, what's not working. You know, how do we create this flywheel that can help them grow in scale? It really is, is something I enjoy. You know, you found your purpose and then  I guess your purpose found you  working with chief outsiders because you were also a solopreneur  for years. What would be your

03:54

tagline if if anybody were to just listen to five minutes of the founder sandbox, what would be. Jen appease tagline such a good question. I think it would be be something like committed to growth. I feel like that is my purpose. That's what I enjoy. And you know now it's part of outsiders. I I now have 125 colleagues who feel the same way. They've all been fortune 1000.

04:23

and larger company marketers from a variety of different industries. think collectively we've probably covered over 80 industries, over 5,000 engagements. I mean, it's just incredible that the people at Cheap Outsiders that I get to work with every day. And I do feel like commitment to growth is almost a shared purpose for all of us. That's why we're here, because we love to make an impact, to see that impact on smaller companies and  be a part.

04:52

of their leadership team. We say that we're outsiders, but we're really embedded as insiders and therefore we can have that impact on  companies and watch them grow in scale. It's very gratifying as a marketer. m I  also work in the small and medium sized enterprise area.  And last month I actually wrote a blog on enterprise,  forms of enterprise and the like.

05:18

Did some research  on actually SMEs.  How many  SMEs in your estimation actually  reach  or go beyond $10 million in revenues? SMEs are 47%, I believe, for the number of enterprises in the United States. But how many actually scale beyond the $10 million revenue? You know, it's a surprisingly small number,  like maybe less than 1%. But you know, that's why we're here.

05:47

We want to increase the chances that those companies can scale, you know, 10 million, 50 million, 100 million. We believe that by really applying the market insights, customer insights, competitive insights into, you know, the strategies around positioning and offers and target marketing will lead to the cost of

06:14

efficient and cost effective strategies and execution that will help companies scale. that really is the heart of the growth gears methodology and approach. Well, that's  a great segue. You and I met at the recurring revenue conference, I guess, in the seventh year. And as you walk me through  the growth gears,  you also have an assessment tool. Would you like to  share?

06:42

overarching what is what are the gears, the growth gears, what are the key aspects that  one can be surveyed about and then and how to engage with  the chief outsiders, because I found it fascinating.  And I actually used it with one or two of my clients to kind of get the wheels, no pun intended, right to  to start moving, right?

07:12

Yes, so the assessment that we use asks companies and leaders questions about the business, about how much do they know about their customers, their competitors,  the company, they looked at market trends? And then starts to ask about, do they know where their revenue  comes from, where their growth is gonna come from? they  understand what channels are most efficient and are they measuring uh the effectiveness  of the marketing?

07:41

programs that they have in motion. And it's not every single question that we could ask, but just enough to get them thinking about where growth is gonna come from. And so we use this assessment, usually around this time actually, we're getting close to Q4. And we use it about this time in order to help them think ahead in terms of what are the priorities that are needed for the following year in order to stimulate.

08:08

enable or actualize growth. So if anyone's interested in doing this assessment with me, it's free. Just, you know, reach out to me on LinkedIn, happy to provide you with the link and then have a conversation about what the answers mean. Absolutely. Jen, we'll put those, the survey or the assessment, pardon me, in the show notes. All right. Great. In addition to other areas. So talk to me a little bit about Chief Outsiders. You did say it was a startup at one time.

08:37

How long has it been around? What's the organization look like? And what are the challenges that you particularly are dealing with with the advent of AI? That's a very little question.  That's a great question,  though. But  Chief Outsiders has been around for over 10 years. I think we've been around before the term fractional  executive or fractional marketer was even a term. think

09:01

Maybe early on we might've been discussed as strategic business consultants, right? Because we're helping companies grow in scale. But we've been around for over 10 years. We've been on the Fortune 5000 for quite a few years. I think definitely 10 or more. the way that we've grown is by really focusing on what marketing leadership needs to do.

09:30

for companies, which at the end of the day, it's about  knowing who your customers are, where to find them,  and  then how to grow the company  based on  that focus on finding and retaining customers, whether it's increasing market penetration within a certain target segment or  finding new markets or launching new products,  whatever that growth strategy is, how to harness that  and  help

10:00

a company,  um, scale over time  and marketing has changed so much. I know over the years, mean, I've seen that with your companies is  overwhelming. I pardon. I will get back to the question, but I, many, many years ago, McKinsey, was a marketing expert research. We didn't have all these amazing tools we have today to conjoin analysis, you know, with your Excel sheets, right. And focus groups.

10:29

Right. So the sophistication, channel, you know, growth explosion is, you know, I threw my talent a long time ago. Well, you know, it used to be, you know, direct mail and then websites, right. And then e-commerce and, and then it was about social media and content marketing and then SEO. I mean, it's just daunting. And now we have to be thinking about AI in all facets of the

10:59

the marketing toolkit, right? It's  impacting every aspect of what we do as marketers.  And we have to be thinking about AEO, like answer engine optimization in addition to SEO. So it

Id. d’épisode : 1000733136637

GUID : e84074b5-9d36-407f-a8f7-388adb96f4d2

Date de publication : 23/10/2025 à 13:36:00